Tuesday, March 12, 2013

Crystal, it's a SKIERS mountain

Holy shit, just read the "Fuck You Knuckle Dragger" article on nwBroweather.  You should read it too before you continue on.  Well she pulled it down, but Broweather saved a copy.  Peep itNice work.
Good, you read it right?   You took in some of the verbage that the owners wife of Crystal Mountain threw out there about WHY she thinks snowboarding is on the decline.  Verbage like:  “Snowboarders strap and unstrap a hundred times a day. It must get really old. As far as efficiency goes, that’s a lot of wasted energy. Maybe snowboarders are getting tired of it. Perhaps that’s why the industry is seeing a decline.”
A couple years ago I was at the Blue Water in Leschi and we were having dinner.  We were talking about WA mountains with an out of towner and giving them the run down.  Crystal came up, and we called it a "skiers elitist mountain."  John, the owner of Crystal was sitting next to us and he interrupted politely and asked why we were saying what we were about his mountain.  "Uh leash law, no jumps in the park, you call 3 rails a terrain park, you get your ticket pulled if you hit side hits and the majority of the people there are Sun Valley wanna be's."  The wife jumped into the conversation and said a bunch of stupid crap like she writes in her blog post John on the other hand was cool, took the info we gave him to heart and asked us to give his mountain another chance as they were trying to be more open.
 

I guess he lied. 

Crystal+Alta=Racists?

 

Her whole rant was started because of a NY Times article that says snowboarding is on the decline.  Have snowboarding's numbers decreased over the last few years?  Yes.  Is there a reason for it?  Absolutely.  Snowboarding numbers are down because the snow has sucked around the country for the last couple of seasons and the economy blows. Simple. People don't have the disposable income to go on $10G vacations like they used to because they "like" the mountains. If they are going to drop that amount of loot, then they have to love it. Everything has it's ups and downs and snowboarding hasn't lost that many participants with whats going on with the snow and economy. Have we lost people to skiing? Sure. Has skiing continued to lose participants to snowboarding? You bet. It's all just sliding down a hill. If your forward or sideways, shits the same.  

So, has snowboarding lost it's edge like some cubical fucks in New York say it has? Fuck no. Absolutely not. It's as rad as it's ever been. I bought my first snowboard from the Burton factory in Manchester Ctr. VT in 1985 and it's funner now than it ever was. Go out there with the attitude from the era of the 80's and every-time you get a chance to meet a fellow shred, say hi, talk to them, make a friend, be a human (keep in mind, I need to follow my own advice but…). It's pretty simple, and very rewarding. I don't give two fucks what someones on, what brand their down for. If their out there having fun, not being on a stupid I-Phone, watching TV or riding a mono board, then I'm down for them.

Anyway, get your ass to Stevens Pass this Saturday and rip on the rope tow with Scotty Stevens and Sean Genovese.  3PM, be there.

28 comments:

  1. Unreal. I am 44, extremely out of shape, and frankly, it is a breath holding struggle to buckle my bindings off the chair. This minor struggle is the last thing I think about when thinking about snowboarding.

    93% of snowboarders are 44 years old or younger.

    76% of skiers are 44 years old or younger.

    What happens in the next 10 or so years as skier demographics become older and older?

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  2. dmiked6665:59 PM

    They still make those people? I thought they all died with the 80's. If you own a SKI area and don't like snowboarding. Just don't allow it. You can't bag on it say you hate it make the guest experience of it horrible and then have the balls to take the lift ticket money from it. I think its time for complimentary boxes of donuts 1990 copper style. (look it up)

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  3. I remember that conversation at the restaurant that night. You guys were being pretty vocal. Usually John and I don't chime in when others are making those kinds of comments. Sorry if I was hostile; I don't remember being that way. You say above, "they wonder why we hate them." Do you hate us? We didn't realize that. Crystal is a mountain more conducive to skiers because of the terrain--shallow cat tracks and depressions make it tough on snowboards. We didn't make the terrain. And the leash thing? We gave that up not too long after that conversation with you at the restaurant. Thanks for pointing out how inefficient those leashes were. I snowboarded for two years, and found the terrain at Crystal difficult to navigate on a board. In my post, I should have been a little more clear. What I meant to say was, "snowboarding is on the decline (according to the NSAA study) so let's take a look at why that might be." Using my usual tone, which can be kind of cheeky if you check out some of the other posts, I examined what about snowboarding might be driving people away. One reason: your dad is doing it so it's not cool anymore. Another reason: it's not as easy as you thought it was. Third reason: while snowboarding is awesome in powder, we're not getting as much of that as we'd hoped. To say that Crystal doesn't like snowboarding is a little misguided. My husband also runs Brighton and the Summit, two very snowboard-friendly mountains, where the terrain is more fall line and the cat tracks are not so flat. Nor do I don't hate snowboarding personally. Far from it. Any day in the mountains is a good one. Even if you're on a mono ski, which I haven't tried yet but promise to do some day.

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    1. Hi Kim. My name is Matt. I'm a snowboarder who occasionally frequents your and your husband's mountains. I'm also a researcher here in Seattle doing drug and device trials for neuroscience and cardiovascular medical research. In that role, I have the occasion to work quite extensively with statistics, and a critical perspective is needed. Maybe it's that perspective that leads me to question the statistics and conclusions in the articles that you site. The article in the Seattle Times even claims that "modern" snowboarding was invented in the '60s, which we all know wasn't true.

      Even if the data is sound, and indicators point to a short-term trend of decreasing numbers of snow enthusiasts pursuing snowboarding while skiing is seeing a (statistically smaller and less significant according to the numbers quoted in the articles you sited) corresponding increase, I don't know why someone who has the ear of a resort owner wouldn't first look at economic factors. Have the demographic groups that favor snowboarding been more severely impacted by the economic recession? Has an increase in discount snowboard on-line retail sales skewed data collection for the segment? Is there any data that actually shows that the snowboarders who are spending less time and money on snowboarding are switching to skiing, or are there a few anecdotal arguments made that attempt to make that conclusion based on linking data sets with assumptions?

      It saddens me that you insist that Crystal is a mountain that is less accessible than other mountains to snowboarders because of its geography. Northway and the Southback are some of my favorite terrain in Washington. Crystal should be as proud of Temple Cummins and Blair Habenicht as Baker is of Lucas DeBari. Crystal produces strong snowboarders because it's a challenging mountain no matter what equipment you use.

      It's true that ALL mountains are "easier" or "more efficient" on skis (unless there's deep powder). The point that you seem to have missed, though, is that those of us who aren't getting paid to patrol or race are there for FUN. We're not there for efficiency or ease. We're there for the exhilaration of the turn, and some of us just aren't as exhilarated while on skis as we are on a snowboard - even though it's less efficient, or it's not a powder day, or we're at Washington's largest resort that doesn't allow airing off of side hits, etc.

      Kim, I'd like to ask you to reconsider your opinion of yourself as open-minded. I simply cannot agree with you. Your blog post is based on your experiences and opinions, and many of them are actually somewhat negative. 2 years of trying snowboarding in addition to skiing does not qualify you as an expert on other people's enjoyment and whether or not snowboarding delivers on its "promise" or is based on "illusion". These are negative assumptions based on some bummer experiences for you and some conversations that you've had with apparently frustrated novice snowboarders. I doubt that Blair, Temple, Andy Bergin-Sperry, or any of your other snowboard "ambassadors" at Crystal would agree with your opinion. I imagine that it might even bum them out a little bit. You should ask them.

      Which brings me to my last point: Why is a desire to justify why snowboarding is less enjoyable (at Crystal) than skiing your take-away from reading the New York Times/LA Times/Seattle Times article(s) on the supposed market decline of one of your family business's identifiable patron groups? Why wasn't your reaction "If this is true, this sucks! How can we as resort owners and managers help to reverse this trend? How can we continue to grow the enjoyment of snowsports and our bottom line by making sure that ALL market segments are growing?" EVERYTHING is marketing, Kim. EVERY interaction with customers - even potential ones - is an opportunity to provide positive service and stoke in a business like yours.

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    2. Kim what you DON'T remember about that night is this, we had no idea who was sitting near us. WE were having a candid conversation about our perceptions of WA mountains and that was and is our view of Crystal. While your husband welcomed the feedback and vowed to try to improve upon our feelings of Crystal, you chimed in and let us know that we were wrong. That snowboarders can't traverse, snowboards can't do this, snowboarders shouldn't do that. Seriously? Listen MOM, I don't need to be told what I can do and can't at a mountain. I made the choice to snowboard instead of ski. I like it. It's fun. Same as you like skiing. Why? Cause it's fun. Get off your high horse and stop telling people what they should and shouldn't do at your husbands mountain and start writing posts about increasing participation at the hill. When you break it down, it's just sliding down a mountain, no matter if its on ski's, snowboards, mono-ski's or whatever. It really doesn't matter what your on, as long as your out there. It's rent a cop attitudes like yours that want to police the hills and tell people how to have their fun. Lets work on providing an all welcoming enviorement where everyone can come and feel like their having a good time.
      Listen, I feel like CRYSTAL MOUNTAIN has this elitist skiers vibe. Why? Cause people like you perpetuate it. For some reason your not secure enough in sliding down the hill on two ski's and feel like you need to tell people that they need to enjoy the mountain as you do. That's bullshit.
      Funny that the Cummins family (some pretty famous snowboarders) were raised at Crystal and now shred at White Pass. Why? Attitudes like yours.
      I like how in your post you said something like you tried teli-skiing, and that your quads and buns were in the best shape of your life. Let me suggest you take that up again, because your gonna need it with the ass chewing that your husband should be giving you for writing crap like that and attaching Crystal Mountains name to it.
      For the rest of you reading that don't want to feel like an outsider at a WA mountain when you go to it, check out Baker, Mission Ridge, White Pass and Stevens Pass. They are all kick ass mountains that welcome all with open arms.

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    3. ahahahaha where's Alpental on your list, Nose?

      KKKim Kircher: don't start none, won't be none. Grow up. You're an asshole (and yes, that's for others to decide). And your blogg is pure astroturf. Youse str9 haquemode. leight

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    4. Alpendildo is fun but man, I don't know. Everytime I go there I wanna fight one of them fucks screaming SINGLE!!! Summit Central WAS rad, last year. Guess all them dudes left for Mission, thus why their park is so bitchen. Place wasn't groomed on a Saturday. Dude, seriously? No grooming on the jumps, landing or on the hill for a Saturday? At a mountain 45 min from the shitty? Who's in charge of that decision? Kim?

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    5. I KNOW. I WAS JOKING.

      EVEN AN ENLIGHTENED MELLOWMAN ACE LIKE YOURS TRULY GETS AGGY IN THE FUCKING ALPENTAL LINE I GET ALLCAPPS JUST THINKING ABOUT IT

      I HATE IT AND I LOVE IT

      I'M AN APEMAN.





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  4. Fuckin A Kim - Look, you blew it. Damage control all you want on all the blogs that are putting you on blast. Fact of the matter is your tone, Crystal Mountains tone is well known and NOTORIOUSLY anti-snowboarding.

    It was starting to fade but you just brought it back heavy.



    PS - Please don't turn off my pass.

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    1. Anonymous12:56 AM

      I've got to agree on this one. Crystal has a fantastic opportunity to use this as a learning experience and change the mountain's culture for the better. I hope that it gets taken - or I hope that they eliminate the Crystal-Snoqualmie Gold Pass/Peak to Summit Pass in favor of a Stevens/Snoqualmie combined pass so that I can ride two resorts that are actively desirous of my presence as a snowboarder...

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  5. Anonymous12:11 PM

    Didn't realize Crystal Mountain had a "Customer Prevention Department". So sad to see a mountain that is so much fun to shred still has, after all these years, such a crappy attitude about snowboarding, promoted from the top-down.

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  6. OMG WHAT A BUNCH OF HORBZ!

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  7. Anonymous5:13 PM

    The problem is not just with snowboarding at crystal mountain, its the mind set of the management and some of the employees there. AFAK basically they think you are: wrong/an idiot/a punk ..., if you do not believe do the following things:

    Crystal mountain is the best
    Crystal mountain has the best terrain
    Crystal mountain has the best snow
    Going anywhere but Crystal in WA is stupid
    The King is extreme back country
    Good skiers at Crystal shop at REI
    The best skiers ski at Crystal (see above)

    Whatever the mentality that made skiing stagnant and lame from the 70's to late 90's is alive and well at Crystal.

    A fun game to play is to ride at crystal and on the chair rides mention that you like other hills esp when ski patrol or instructors are on the chairs with you.

    Can you just imagine the argument if Kim overheard you saying something like: Alpental is my favorite place to ride after a big dump.




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  8. TV is pretty rad. Not with you on that one.

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  9. Alta Splitfest 2014

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  10. Anonymous8:16 AM

    i just emailed my wife this article-she's a tele skier (god i know, i've tried to convert her-trust me).

    she and her girlfriends just canceled their yearly vaginal trip to crystal after reading the blog. let's see, nine chicks who like to spa, drink wine, shop, enjoy good food, plus lift tickets and hotel rooms... i'd say that's about a 10k loss on crystal's part. good thing for trip insurance, huh crystal?

    they'll be much happier in the town of glacier hiking the arm next week.

    -jf

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    1. JF, send them wifes to Levenworth and have em teli Stevens. Levy has a ton of shit for them to do, vs. Glacier, where they'll get pillaged by the townies.

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  11. I witnessed two separate skiers lose a ski getting on the chairlift this past weekend.. thankfully the snowboarders behind them were able to grab the skis and bring them to the top. Efficiency... right

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    1. You ever see these efficient skiers walking backwards thru a plaza in their efficient hard plastic foot clamps? When I worked rentals in Steamboat in the 90's, we used to tell all the Texans that the fastest way to get down stairs was to unbuckle the rear entry boots and walk backwards. Yea, geniuses.

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  12. Personally, I do think snowboarding got kind of gay there for a bit and that contributed to the numbers dropping. Honestly getting some consolidation and focus back on just having fun is just what the industry needed. Things are definitely back to being rad (evident by the 500 Banked Slaloms and the stacks of pow specific boards out now) and I suspect you are going to see things crank again once the economy gets its balls back and hopefully global warming takes a few seasons off.

    All these skiers passing judgement on snowboarders is comical. Regardless of what rationalization is used, the core to the sentiment is that of elitism and a deep rooted feeling that snowboarding is not on the same plane as skiing. That Alta video illustrated that in mass and I have witnessed it over and over at MRG and Taos. Further fueling that prejudice with a "cheeky" blog post that implies it would be best to let snowboarding die, especially in a high visibility resort position, is reckless and speaks volumes. I just pulled Crystal off my list of places to visit and will pass the word.

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    1. Snowboarders are kinda gay actually. Fashiony tight pants, goggle sag, face masks, all over matching prints, reclining high backs (sorry Addy)...shits like Halloween out there sometimes. Maybe those clowns should take up skiing? Snowboarding on the other hand is as fun as it gets. Riding pow...can't be beat with any other feeling out there. Including beating. #boycottCrystal

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    2. That is a solid distinction. I think that overall the industry is concentrating more on snowboarding and less on being snowboarders now. Mark Sullivan said "lets face it, snowboarding is easier to learn than skiing, less costly to get into and more satisfying in powder conditions." There is no reason snowboarding won't rebound once the money starts flowing again.

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  13. FUCK, this bitch is still getting netfamous even though she's pulled an epic dicktuck (clit tuck?) and pulled the article? It's like the bestworst guerrilla marketing campaign ever. Most employees would have lost their jobs but most aren't shining the boss's knob. Props to KKKim for putting her money where her mouth is I guess.


    BTW, nice of you to change back to non-Google account logins. I wanted to comment awhile back on a vid of your kids shredding but couldn't. Anyways, whatever, it's winter again.

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  14. #givePETERtoFORUM kinda blew me out of the water. Like 6,000 critics in two days visiting this shit show of a blog, so had to enable the comments to unable the visitors. Mike D sent me an emails saying he couldn't comment, and when the inventor of snowboarding wants to says something, you got to let him.

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  15. Baldface, we are happy to accept skiers at our snowboarding resort. Whats the problem? pfft.

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  16. Anonymous6:29 PM

    I am from Colorado, but buy a pass at Snoqualmie (alpental) and Stevens Pass, some friends and I went to Crystal for the first time ever last year. I got lost, and apparently ended up somewhere I shouldn't have been? (very poorly marked) when I got down, 6 patrollers were waiting for me, took me to the bottom of the hill, fined me 1,000 dollars, and somehow pulled my pass at Snoqualmie and Stevens!!!! Yes, I am a snowboarder, but I am 41 years old and am a third grade teacher, not exactly your typical punk snowboarder. I couldn't believe the way they treated me...I won't be back....EVER! Guess I will ride Baker...

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    1. Please provide some pics or more proof of that. Not saying I don't believe you, but I don't really believe you. Haven't heard of them trying to implement that 1000 dollar fine thing. Even though I have entered Bear Pits through and open gate and had some psycho patroller look me in the eye and say I didn't.

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  17. Anonymous11:11 PM

    The ONLY stop on The Freeride World Qualifier that isn't allowing snowboarders to compete is Crystal Mt. I feel sorry for Kim

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